Huge tom here ya go - Page 2 - Steroids Source Talk

admin · #11 (**permalink**) 06-23-2014, 06:14 PM

Not true!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13uie67

If u dont get into longer esters ur going to loose it as far as u gained it.

Cornish_Celt · #12 (**permalink**) 06-23-2014, 06:22 PM

https://www.hypermuscles.com/f23/what-ester-1039/

https://www.hypermuscles.com/f23/wha...part-2-a-1048/

https://www.hypermuscles.com/f23/wha...part-3-a-1049/

Cornish_Celt · #13 (**permalink**) 06-23-2014, 06:25 PM

Testosterone propionate is a commonly manufactured, oil-based injectable testosterone compound. The added propionate ester will slow the rate in which the steroid is released from the injection site, but only for a few days. Testosterone propionate is therefore comparatively much faster acting than other testosterone esters such as cypionate or enanthate, and requires a much more frequent dosing schedule. While cypionate and enanthate are injected on a weekly basis, propionate is generally administered (at least) every third day. Figure one illustrates a typical release pattern after injection. As you can see, levels peak and begin declining quickly with this ester of testosterone. To make this drug even more uncomfortable to use, the propionate ester can be very irritating to the site of injection. In fact, many sensitive individuals choose to stay away from this steroid completely, their body reacting with a pronounced soreness and low-grade fever that may last for a few days. Even the mild soreness that is experienced by most users can be quite uncomfortable, especially when taking multiple pharmacokinetics of Testosterone propionate injections each week. The "standard" esters like in ection enanthate and cypionate, which are clearly easier to use, are therefore much more popular among athletes.

Those who are not bothered by frequent injections will find that propionate is quite an effective steroid. It is of course a powerful mass drug, capable of producing rapid gains in size and strength. At the same time the buildup of estrogen and DHT (dihydrotestosterone) will be pronounced, so typical testosterone side effects are to be expected. Some do consider propionate to be the mildest testosterone ester, and the preferred form of this hormone for dieting/cutting phases of training. Some will go so far as to say that propionate will harden the physique, while giving the user less water and fat retention than one typically expects to see with a testosterone. Realistically however, this is nonsense. The ester is removed before testosterone is active in the body, and likewise the ester cannot alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way, only slow its release. We can say that propionate might be the favored testosterone among female bodybuilders (for those who insist on testosterone use!), as blood levels are easier to control with it compared to other esters. Should virilization symptoms develop, one would not wish to wait the weeks needed for testosterone concentrations to fall after a shot of enanthate for example.

During a typical cycle one will see action that is consistent with a testosterone. Users sensitive to gynecomastia may therefore need to addition an antiestrogen. Those particularly troubled may find that a combination of Nolvadex® and Proviron® works especially well at preventing/halting this occurrence. Also unavoidable with a testosterone are androgenic side effects like oily skin, acne, increased aggression and body/facial hair growth. Those who may have a predisposition for male pattern baldness may also find that propionate will aggravate this condition. To help combat this we also have the option of adding Propecia®/Proscar®, which will reduce the buildup of DHT in many androgen target tissues. This will help minimize related side effects (particularly hair loss) although it offers us no guarantees. And as with all testosterone . products, propionate will also suppress endogenous testosterone production. The use of a testosterone stimulating drug like HCG and/or Clomid® is therefore almost a requirement in order to avoid enduring a post-cycle crash.

The most common dosage schedule for this compound (men) is to inject 50 to 100mg, every 2"d or 3`d day. As with the more popular esters, the total weekly dosage would be in the range of 200-400mg. As with all testosterone compounds, this drug is most appropriately suited for bulking phases of training. Here it is most often combined with other strong agents such as Dianabol, Anadrol 50® or Deca-Durabolin®, combinations that prove to be quite formidable. Propionate however is sometimes also used with nonaromatizing anabolics/androgens during cutting or dieting phases of training, a time when its' fast action and androgenic nature are also appreciated. Popular stacks include a moderate dosage of propionate with an oral anabolic like Winstrol® (15-35 mg daily), Primobolan® (50-150mg daily) or oxandrolone (15-30mg daily). Provided the body fat percentage is sufficiently low, the look of dense muscularity can be notably improved (barring any excess estrogen buildup from the testosterone). We can further add a non-aromatizing androgen like trenbolone or Halotestin®, which should have an even more extreme effect on subcutaneous body fat and muscle hardness. Of course with the added androgen content any related side effects will become much more pronounced.

Women who absolutely must use an injectable testosterone should only use this preparation. The dosage schedule should also be more spread out for a female bodybuilder, with injections coming every 5 to 7 days. The dosage obviously would be lower as well, generally in the range of 25mg to 50mg per injection. Androgenic activity should be less pronounced with this schedule, giving blood levels time to sufficiently decrease before the drug is administered again. In order to further reduce any risks, the duration of this cycle should not exceed 8 weeks. Should a stronger anabolic effect be needed, a small amount of Durabolin® (Deca-Durabolin® if unavailable), Oxandrolone or Winstrol® could be added. Of course the risk of noticing virilizing effects from these drugs may increase, even with the addition of a mild anabolic. Since many of the masculinizing side effects of steroid use can be irreversible, it is very important for the female athlete to monitor the dosage, duration and incidence of side effects very closely.

On the black market propionate is not an abundant item. Although individual ampules are commonly cheap in the pharmacies of many countries, purchases here can be quite different. When looking to buy the total number of ampules needed for a complete cycle the costs for this drug can add up quickly. This is especially true when purchasing individual ampules, which usually carry a high price tag even if the content is only 50mg of steroid. Obtaining a multi-dose vial preparation such as Testosterona from Brovel (Mexico), Testopro (Loeffler) or Testogan by Laguinsa (S. American) is the best way to reduce the price of this compound, as the cost for each injection should be considerably reduced with a large container. The higher dosage in the 100mg product from Brovel and the 250mg item from Loeffler (see following) also bring the price down for this steroid considerably, and seem to be sparking new interest in this ester. Athletes however generally still find propionate to be a bit too much trouble though, and usually prefer the longer acting testosterones like cypionate or enanthate. Although demand for this steroid is low, it is of course still an acceptable option.

Recently the Mexican veterinary firm Loeffler released nothing less than the most shocking propionate product ever developed by any company. It is called Testopro UA, and is a l0ml vial of propionate in an unheared of strength of 250 mg/ml. This dosage is more shocking than it sounds at first next to all the 250mg enanthate and now cypionate products in circulation. Testosterone propionate is less oil soluble than Testosterone enanthate or cypionate, making a high dosage more difficult to achieve. Before Testopro the highest concentration you could find of this steroid was 100mg/ml. Reaching 250 milligrams is no doubt a result of not simply adding more steroid to one ml of oil, but increasing the alcohol content in the solution considerably as well. This makes for a much more uncomfortable solution to inject. Although admittedly the highest dose of propionate you will ever find, users have been reporting that it is also intolerably painful. Most find they have to dilute the solution with other lower dosed steroids if they are to continue using the product. This should be no a surprise I guess with a steroid that already has a reputation as being painful to inject.

Cornish_Celt · #14 (**permalink**) 06-23-2014, 06:26 PM

Testosterone enanthate is an oil based injectable steroid, designed to release testosterone slowly from the injection site (depot). Once administered, serum concentrations of this hormone will rise for several days, and remain markedly elevated for approximately two weeks. It may actually take three weeks for the action of this drug to fully diminish. For medical purposes this is the most widely prescribed testosterone, used regularly to treat cases of hypogonadism and other disorders related to androgen deficiency. Since patients generally do not selfadminister such injections, a long acting steroid like this is a very welcome item. Therapy is clearly more comfortable in comparison to an ester like propionate, which requires a much more frequent dosage schedule. This product has also been researched as a possible male birth control options9. Regular injections will efficiently lower sperm production, a state that will be reversible when the drug is removed. With the current stigma surrounding steroids however, it is unlikely that such an idea would actually become an adopted practice.

Testosterone is a powerful hormone with notably prominent side effects. Much of which stem from the fact that testosterone exhibits a high tendency to convert into estrogen. Related side effects may therefore become a problem during a cycle. For starters, water retention can become quite noticeable. This can produce a clear loss of muscle definition, as subcutaneous fluids begin to build. The storage of excess body fat may further reduce the visibility of muscle features, another common problem with aromatizing steroids. The excess estrogen level during/after your cycle also has the potential to lead up to gynecomastia. Adding an ancillary drug like Nolvadex® and/or Proviron® is therefore advisable to those with a known sensitivity to this side effect. As discussed throughout this book, the antiaromatase Arimidex® is a much better choice. The expense of this drug unfortunately stops its use from becoming a widespread practice however. It is believed that the use of an antiestrogen can slightly lower the anabolic effect of most androgen cycles (estrogen and water weight are often thought to facilitate strength and muscle gain), so one might want to see if such drugs are actually necessary before committing to use. A little puffiness under the nipple is a sign that gynecomastia is developing. If this is left to further develop into pronounced swelling, soreness and the growth of small lumps under the nipples, some form of action should be taken immediately to treat it (obviously quitting the drug or adding ancillaries).

Being a testosterone product, all the standard androgenic side effects are also to be expected. Oily skin, acne, aggressiveness, facial/body hair growth and male pattern baldness are all possible. Older or more sensitive individuals might therefore choose to avoid testosterone products, and look toward milder anabolics like DecaDurabolin® or Equipoise® which produce fewer side effects. Others may opt to add the drug Proscar®/Propecia®, which will minimize the conversion of testosterone into DHT (dihydrotestosterone). With blood levels of this metabolite notably reduced, the impact of related side effects should also be reduced. With strong bulking drugs however, the user will generally expect to incur strong side effects and will often just tolerate them. Most athletes really do not find the testosterones all that uncomfortable (especially in the face of the end result), as can be seen with the great popularity of such compounds.

Although this particular ester is active for a much longer duration, most athletes prefer to inject it on a weekly basis in order to keep blood levels more uniform. The usual dosage would be in the range of 250mg-750mg (200mg-800mg U.S. strength). This level is quite sufficient, and should provide the user a rapid gain of strength and body weight. Above this level estrogenic side effects will no doubt become much more pronounced, outweighing any new muscle that is possibly gained. Those looking for greater bulk would be better served by adding an oral like Anadrol 50® or Dianabol, combinations which prove to be nothing less than dramatic. If the athlete wishes to use a testosterone yet retain a level of quality and definition to the physique, an injectable anabolic like Deca-Durabolin® or Equipoise® may prove to be a better choice. Here we can use a lower dosage of enanthate, so as to gain an acceptable amount of muscle but keep the buildup of estrogen to a minimum. Of course the excess estrogen that is associated with testosterone makes it a bulking only drug, producing too much water (and fat) retention for use near contest time.

With the proper administration of ancillary drugs, much of the new muscle mass can be retained for a long time after the steroid cycle has been stopped. Those who rely solely on a fancy tapering-off schedule to accomplish this are likely to be disappointed. Although a common practice, this is really not an effective way to restore the hormonal balance.

On the black market, enanthate is probably the most commonly found ester of testosterone available. Currently the most popular products include the 200mg/ml Mexican generics from the veterinary firms Brovel and Tornel. Both come packaged in 10 ml vials, and offer excellent value for the amount of steroid included. Loeffler has offered a striking new product recently, a 250mg/ml enanthate in a similarly sized vial. Although not the highest dose of this steroid ever produced, it is certainly the only legitimate product containing 250m1 to be found in a container of this size. Primoteston from Mexico, Testoviron® from Schering in Spain and the French product Testosterone Heptylate Theramex also circulate inside the U.S. as well. Heptylate is not a unique ester of testosterone as described by other writers, as in fact it is simply another word for enanthate. Occasionally amps from other regions surface as well, which is to be expected with this ester as it is more widely produced than any other. The actually number of enanthate products made would be difficult to catalog here, and any comprehensive list would be almost impossible to keep current.

Cornish_Celt · #15 (**permalink**) 06-23-2014, 06:27 PM

Testosterone Cypionate
American athletes have a long a fond relationship with Testosterone cypionate. While Testosterone enanthate is manufactured widely throughout the world, cypionate seems to be almost exclusively an American item. It is therefore not surprising that American athletes particularly favor this testosterone ester. But many claim this is not just a matter of simple pride, often swearing cypionate to be a superior product, providing a bit more of a "kick" than enanthate. At the same time it is said to produce a slightly higher level of water retention, but not enough for it to be easily discerned. Of course when we look at the situation objectively, we see these two steroids are really interchangeable, and cypionate is not at all superior. Both are long acting oil-based injectables, which will keep testosterone levels sufficiently elevated for approximately two weeks. Enanthate may be slightly better in terms of testosterone release, as this ester is one carbon atom lighter than cypionate (remember the ester is calculated in the steroids total milligram weight). The difference is so insignificant however that no one can rightly claim it to be noticeable (we are maybe talking a few milligrams per shot). Regardless, cypionate came to be the most popular testosterone ester on the U.S. black market for a very long time.

As with all testosterone injectables, one can expect a considerable gain in muscle mass and strength during a cycle. Since testosterone has a notably high affinity for estrogen conversion, the mass gained from this drug is likely to be accompanied by a discernible level of water retention. The resulting loss of definition of course makes cypionate a very poor choice for dieting or cutting phases. The excess level of estrogen brought about by this drug can also cause one to develop gynecomastia rather quickly. Should the user notice an uncomfortable soreness, swelling or lump under the nipple, an ancillary drug like Proviron® and/or Nolvadex® should probably be added. This will minimize the effect of estrogen greatly, making the steroid much more tolerable to use. The powerful antiaromatase Arimidex® is yet a better choice, but the high price tag prevents it from being more popularly used. Those who have a known sensitivity to estrogen may find it more beneficial to use ancillary drugs like Proviron® and Nolvadex® from the onset of the cycle, in order to prevent estrogen related side effects before they become apparent.

Since testosterone is the primary male androgen, we should also expect to see pronounced androgenic side effects with this drug. Much intensity is related to the rate in which the body converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT). This, as you know, is the devious metabolite responsible for the high prominence of androgenic side effects associated with testosterone use. This includes the development of oily skin, acne, body/facial hair growth and male pattern balding. Those worried that they may have a genetic predisposition toward male pattern baldness may wish to avoid testosterone altogether. Others opt to add the ancillary drug Propecia®, which is a relatively new compound that prevents the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (see: Proscar®). This can greatly reduce the chance for running into a hair loss problem, and will probably lower the intensity of other androgenic side effects. Although active in the body for much longer time, cypionate is injected on a weekly basis. This should keep blood levels relatively constant, although picky individuals may even prefer to inject this drug twice weekly. At a dosage of 200mg to 800mg per week we should certainly see dramatic results. It is interesting to note that while a large number of other steroidal compounds have been made available since testosterone injectables, they are still considered to be the dominant bulking agents among bodybuilders. There is little argument that these are among the most powerful mass drugs. While large doses are generally unnecessary, some bodybuilders have professed to using excessively high dosages of this drug. This was much more common before the 1990's, when cypionate vials were usually very cheap and easy to find in the states. A "more is better" attitude is easy to justify when paying only $20 for a l0cc vial (today the typical price for a single injection). When taking dosages above 8001000mg per week there is little doubt that water retention will come to be the primary gain, far outweighing the new mass accumulation. The practice of "megadosing" is therefore inefficient, especially when we take into account the typical high cost of steroids today.

It is also important to remember that the use of an injectable testosterone will quickly suppress endogenous testosterone production. It may therefore be good advice to use a testosterone stimulating drug like HCG and/or Clomid®/Nolvadex® at the conclusion of a cycle. This should help the user avoid a strong "crash" due to hormonal imbalance, which can strip away much of the new muscle mass and strength. This is no doubt the reason why many athletes claim to be very disappointed with the final result of steroid use, as there is often only a slight permanent gain if anabolics are discontinued incorrectly. Of course we cannot expect to retain every pound of new bodyweight after a cycle. This is especially true whenever we are withdrawing a strong (aromatizing) androgen like testosterone, as a considerable drop in weight (and strength) is to be expected as retained water is excreted. This should not be of much concern; instead the user should focus on ancillary drug therapy so as to preserve the solid mass underneath. Another way athletes have found to lessen the "crash", is to first replace the testosterone with a milder anabolic like Deca-Durabolin®. This steroid is administered alone, at a typical dosage (200-400mg per week), for the following month or two. In this "stepping down" procedure the user is attempting to turn the watery bulk of a strong testosterone into the more solid muscularity we see with nandrolone preparations. In many instances this practice proves to be very effective. Of course we must remember to still administer ancillary drugs at the conclusion, as endogenous testosterone production will not be rebounding during the Deca therapy. Cypionate can still be found on the black market in good volume. The U.S. generics such as Steris, Schein Geneva are long gone, but have been replaced with several new products. One of the most popular items to surface in the last two years is the Ttokkyo generic from Mexico. First available in 100mg/ml strength, and more recently 200mg/ml, this l0ml multi-dose provides an inexpensive replacement for the U.S. generics of yesterday. Seemingly in an effort to top Ttokkyo, Loeffler recently released its Cypriotest UA product. This comes in a dosage of 250 mg/ml, in a 10 ml vial. This is the highest dosage of cypionate ever to be developed, and has been getting a lot of attention in recent months as a result. Although not manufactured there, the Australian product Testo LA has been a popular import in Mexico lately as well. This boasts a dosage of only 100 mg/ml in a similarly sized vial. Also located on the black market are products that have been around for much longer, including Testex from Spain (100mg/2m1, 250mg/2ml), Deposteron (200mg/2ml) from Brazil, Miro Depo from Korea and Testosterona Ultra (200mg/ml, 5ml amp and 20m1 multi-dose vials) from Uruguay.

Cornish_Celt · #16 (**permalink**) 06-23-2014, 06:28 PM

Sustanon 250® is an oil-based injectable testosterone blend, developed by the international drug firm Organon. It typically contains four different testosterone esters: Testosterone propionate (30 mg); testosterone phenylpropionate (60 mg); testosterone isocaproate (60mg); and testosterone decanoate (100 mg), although a lower dosed version is also produced. An intelligently "engineered" testosterone, Sustanon is designed to provide a fast yet extended release of testosterone. The propionate and phenylpropionate esters in this product are quickly utilized, releasing into circulation within the first four days. The remaining esters are much slower to release, staying active in the body for about two and three weeks (respectively). This is a big improvement from standard testosterones such as cypionate or enanthate, which provide a much shorter duration of activity, and a more variable blood level.

As with all testosterone products, Sustanon is a strong anabolic with pronounced androgenic activity. It is most commonly used as a bulking drug, providing exceptional gains in strength and muscle mass. Although it does convert to estrogen, as is the nature of testosterone, this injectable is noted as being slightly more tolerable than cypionate or enanthate. As stated throughout this book, such observations are only issues of timing however. With Sustanon, blood levels of testosterone are building more slowly, so side effects do not set in as fast. For equal blood hormone levels however, testosterone will break down equally without regard to ester. Many individuals may likewise find it necessary to use an antiestrogen, in which case a low dosage of Nolvadex®(tamoxifen citrate) or Proviron®(mesterolone) would be appropriate. Also correlating with estrogen, water retention should be noticeable with Sustanon. This is not desirable when the athlete is looking to maintain a quality look to the physique, so this is certainly not an idea drug for contest preparation.

Being a strong androgen, we can expect the typical side effects. This includes oily skin, acne body/facial hair growth and premature balding. The addition of Proscar®/Propecia® should be able to minimize such side effects, as it will limit the testosterone to DHT (dihydrotestosterone) conversion process. Sustanon will also suppress natural testosterone production rather quickly. The use of HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) and/or Clomid® (clomiphene citrate)/Nolvadex® (tamoxifen citrate) may be necessary at the conclusion of a cycle in order to avoid a hormonal crash. Remember though, Sustanon will remain active in the body for up to a month after your last injection was given. Beginning you ancillary drug therapy immediately after the steroid has been discontinued will not be very effective. Instead, HCG or Clomid® (clomiphene citrate)/Nolvadex® should be delayed two or three weeks, until you are near the point where blood androgen levels are dropping significantly.

Although Sustanon remains active in the body for approximately three weeks, injections are taken at least every 10 days. An effective dosage ranges from 250mg (one ampule) every 10 days, to 1000mg (four ampules) weekly. Some athletes do use more extreme dosages of this steroid, but this is really not a recommended practice. When the dosage rises above 750-1000mg per week, increased side effects will no doubt be outweighing additional An benefits. Basically you will receive a poor return on your investment, which with Sustanon can be substantial. Instead of taking unnecessarily large amounts, athletes interested in rapid size and strength will usually opt to addition another compound. For this purpose we find that Sustanon stacks extremely well with the potent orals Anadrol 50® (oxymetholone) and Dianabol (methandrostenolone). On the other hand, Sustanon may work better with trenbolone or Winstrol® (stanozolol) if the athlete were seeking to maintain a harder, more defined look to his physique.

Sustanon 250 is probably the most sought after injectable testosterone. I must however emphasize that this is not due to an unusual potency of this testosterone combination however (remember esters only effect the release of testosterone), but simply because a "stack" of four different esters is a very good selling point. In many instances you will get a lot more for your money with enanthate, so don't let the fancy stack fool you. Sustanon is however still very abundant on the U.S. black market, and doesn't stay long on dealer's shelves. In fact the high demand for this steroid has stirred new interest in its manufacture, particularly by veterinary companies in Mexico. As a result, we now have two new clones coming out this country. The first is Ttokkyo's Testonon 250. This item comes packaged in 5 ml multi-dose vials, and obviously provides much more steroid per container than the single-dose ampules. Soon after we started to notice Loeffler's Testosterona IV UA. This contains the same steroid but in a l0ml vial, doubling the volume of Ttokkyo's product. Also found recently is clone from Qualityvet in Costa Rica called Testosterona 250, which is in a l0ml vial as well. These are the first multi-dosed versions of this steroid ever to be developed, and provide a much more economical way to use this testosterone product in most cases than single dose ampules.

Russian Sustanon, manufactured under license by Infar in India (for export to Russia) is still found in the U.S. with some frequency. This product comes packaged in plastic strips that hold five ampules, sealed on the face with white paper label. Each ampule is sealed in a separate compartment and the packaging is scored so as to break off individual ampule sections. One standout characteristic is that ampule labels and packaging bear a big green "250" imprint under the lettering. The old ampules, some of which might still be in circulation, have a white paper label and are imprinted with blue ink.

Sostenon 250 redi-jects manufactured by Organon in Mexico are also still found, although much less commonly in light of the less expensive products now coming out of this country. The problem is that the price for a Sostenon redi-ject is about $7-8 in Mexico, $10 in some more expensive tourist areas, and in the United States they can sell for as high as $25 each. The new veterinary clones are far cheaper in comparison, and therefore much more popular now. Regardless, redi-jects are still sold, and can be trusted when found. Each one comes packaged in a plastic tray, sealed with a foil covering.
Less common but still seen on the US black market are the European versions of Sustanon from countries like Italy, Portugal, and England. All of these amps are scored and have a white paper label that is somewhat difficult to peel off. The amps and boxes should have the lot number and expiration dated stamped on it. Durateston, the brand name Organon uses in Brazil, and Polysteron from Venezuela are also seen in the U.S., and should be reliable buys.

13uie67 · #17 (**permalink**) 06-23-2014, 07:23 PM

HEY ALL MY BAD ON NOT EXPLAINING THE TEST PROP RIGHT, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION OF THT THE TEST PROP WAS GOING TO BE RAN AND THEN STOP W/O A PCT..... MY BAD ALL... I NEED TO READ MORE CLEARER... LMAO

OK FEEL LIKE A DUMBASS NOW.....

I GUESS THT I NEED TO PAY MORE ATTENTION...

paige · #18 (**permalink**) 06-24-2014, 01:55 AM

I just finished a 10 week test prop cycle and gained 15lbs of muscle while losing 2% BF. I'm in PCT and haven't lost any of my gains 3 weeks after last injection.

erich1b · #19 (**permalink**) 06-24-2014, 06:49 AM

That's what I was saying...................

Quote:

Originally Posted by erich1b

I'd like to learn more about that.

Can you provide some links that support the contention that if you don't use long ester steroids, then you'll lose your gains as quickly as you made them?

Just interested in gaining information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by admin

Not true!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by erich1b

I'm just going to leave this thread alone....................... No worries.