Which is best at stopping Gyno
 

I know some have said this to me, but on the net there seems to be much disagreement.

Which is best for prevention of Gyno, Arimixyl or Aromaxyl, Nolva, Clomid, or Letro?

I'm gonna be doing 12 weeks of test E for the first time, and I've got clomid coming, but I'm still thinking of Gyno.

clomid is the worst choice of all of those. doesnt help with gyno at all

Yea, I read that too. Although I was told that would likely be all I needed. I could of ordered others, but I hadn't wanted my order to be held back. Maybe that was a mistake.

I like adex it keeps the gyno at bay. I'm going to be giving aromaxyl a try soon I'll let u know how that goes.

shouldnt need anyting
if you get gyno from just test e there is a big problem

Why is that? I thought Test E was one is f the most likely to give it too you. I'm slightly worried about blood pressure too, but that's normal.

I'll have to get CBC blood work done a few times while on cycle, do you think my doctor is going to become worried because of my RBC.

You will more than likely get bloated from estrogen water weight then get any kind of gyno. You are most likely to get gyno from Tren or deca then any test.

So isn't being bloated and the possible blood pressure issues from extra water weight a reason to maybe consider using a serm on cycle?

Obviously controlling excessive carbs will help but limited use of serm can't hurt gains to that extent, can it?

I guess I'll just order some and hope that it get here before anything serious goes down.

is this your first cycle?
. doesnt sound like you are ready for this at this moment

being scared, saying what you are saying, you need to do more research

I totally agree with dfwtp, you certainly don't sound ready for your first cycle, you need to do a hell of a lot more research.

For example you're worried about the side effects from Test, did you ever once think about the side effects from the Clomid?? I'd be more concerned about that than any Test sides!

You need to get hold of some books on the subject and study them properly also go through all the info on HM, don't just rely on the internet because half the stuff you read is bull shit

I'm doing research, and why shouldn't I be scared. The research is what had gotten me to asking more questions. There really isn't much more I can learn about this process without doing it myself. However, I like getting others experiences. There is thousands of different people saying different things.

Although I said I was worried, not scared. But sure, we should be fearful. Even people who are experts don't know for sure,
because of the lack of studies. It's not a highly studied thing, because of the legality, cost, and the ethics,
But almost everyone seems to agree there is a cost to be paid for this. Just how big seems to differ from person to person.

I don't think we should ever not be worried about these things, and I'd like to hear more about what others experienced. So I ask a lot of questions.

Everyone seems to have different experiences. I've read, quite literally for a week straight, as much as I can about what the average research source says. That's not what I'm searching for now, I'd like to hear how it has played out in practice.

(Since words don't show nuance, I don't say this in anger). I've done more research in the last three weeks on this topic than I've done in the last six months of graduate school. I don't think being fearful (although that isn't even what I wrote, which was worried) is a bad thing, it would be alarming if we were not fearful. I don't see a book convincing me to be less fearful. I thought these forums were here so we can give each other our experiences.

It is my first time, and I'm sure that is why I'm more fearful than those who have done it before.

I'm shocked if you guys tell me even after researching you were not scared. Heck, I'm surprised if anyone tells me they are not fearful every time they pin (surely they were their first time).

We cannot know enough about putting hormones into the body.

Any one of them could theoretically cause us to have a heart attack or a stroke.

The liver can shut down, even from injectables.

However, that is why I have blood test ordered to monitor this, yet if was an entire team of doctors surrounding me for 24 hours and I'd be fearful of what could happen.

Heck, I'm fearful when I take Asperin, which is harder on the liver than Test E. So says a Rich Pena.

I think if you are not scared doing this, then it isn't me who needs to do more research. The simple fact is, this is dangerous.

Having said that, I'm worried about Gyno, specifically. Because I didn't order anything stronger than Clomid, all I wanted was to get other experience with whether clomid is truly good enough for test E and Gyno.

Huge Tom said it was, many others don't agree.

Like I said, you need to do more research.

You studied for 3 weeks? I studied AAS and other performance enhancing drugs for 2 years before I even thought about picking up a syringe.

Have you studied the side effects of Clomid? It sounds like you got it because one person told you to. I would be much more worried about the sides associated with Clomid, I personally would never recommend it, for anything.

I didn't haphazardly choose Clomid. I got Clomid because it came as an entire cycle package. When I asked GBN if it was enough to starve off Gyno, I was told yea. That most didn't have to worry about it. Same thing I was just told. However, others disagree.

I was also given the same advice about Clomid a week ago on this forum, and that's when I circled back around to do a little more research.

But sure, if Huge Tom wouldn't have said Clomid would work, I may of ordered another option right off the bat.

Truthfully , I likely would have right away if not for my fear of being scammed. Being scammed The only thing I've been truly scared of, because I researched and found that there are hundreds of sites who would scam you. I didn't want to risk losing more money until the first successful shipment.

That's why I'm enquiring about how long Gyno takes for some to set in. Because now my concern is, can I start the test E while waiting for a stronger A.I. or Serm to show up, roughly three weeks. I thought since it take awhile for test e to take work, maybe I'd have some layway.

The only thing relatively new unheard of to me before I ordered was Letro.

I totally get what you guys are saying though, it's just I am not asking because I haven't researched it, I am to get a better feel of what others experienced, rather than the cookie cutter answers.


I'm worried about Clomid sides too, but not as much as I am about the Gyno. Because I can get another PCT in 12 weeks.

I think we should cut this guy a bit of slack fellas. As far as I can tell he's done nothing but research since he's been on the forum.

I told him straight away that I didn't rate and would never use clomid again but as he says GBN sell it as part of a complete cycle package. So it's not unreasonable to presume clomid is good enough for the cycle.

Yes he's jumped in a bit early by ordering but hopefully he won't actually start his cycle until he's satisfied he understands all he needs to know about serms and AI's and recognising sides etc etc. Hope you're reading this Jedi?

One good thing is that his first cycle is a straightforward test only cycle and that really shouldn't cause any problems.

Honestly, he's been asking me about absolutely everything and presumably asking loads of other people too. And as we all agree, there's so many differing opinions on just about everything its good to get a general consensus before making our own minds up because at some point we have to decide what we believe and what we don't!
If nothing else I think he realises he needs nolva as a back up.

Well, USPS says my package tracking is "originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece." That's how long I have. JUst kidding. I agree with you, and their premise for the most part. We should know what we're getting into. This isn't the kind of thing you do without knowing what is really going on. Part of the problem is, many people tell you there are no dangers. I knew better. But I know much more now from the people at this forum, and other sites I've been to. (This one is still my favorite).

I must admit, and some may remember, when I ordered, I was extremely concerned with legality and just flat out being scammed. I chose something that was a reasonable investment because I didn't want to lose out. I surely could have made a better choice. Heck, I ordered pins online, and now think I could have just got them here and knew they were GTG.

I'm not claiming I'm no newbie, because I am. Nor am I claiming that I am not worried about sides, because they concern me.

What I will claim is that I am not jumping off of a cliff without looking to make sure there is water at the bottom. I know there is water, now I'm making sure, 100% sure, that it's deep enough.

I really have come to the conclusion that starting the cycle without all backups is unwise. Although most say I won't have an issue, I really want to make sure.

Now there is something to be said for the thrill of jumping off a cliff without knowing what's at the bottom! That would be a thrill, right.:D

once someone make up mind that they are doing a cycle i dont think people can change that
all can do is offer the advice you can give
and peoples advice will differ and choice of peoples preffered drugs/stack or PCT will differ

I totally agree. All those of us who have already taken the plunge can really do is help those who are about to with our knowledge and experience, good or bad.

Half the problem is, that it's not like trusting your best mate, it's like trusting your best mate's mate and that's not the same!

last post on this.
if you get gyno from test E
this game isnt for you

you should never use again if it happens

people go on and stay on for 10 years, and yes they were never scared

youre talking about 10 weeks and dying and stopping your liver

Most people (90%) dont even use PCT

3 weeks of research??????????????????????????????????????

you are swimming in deep waters here

as I said, you are not ready, and coming at this from a very beginner, uneducated, immature point of view

if you were buying your 3rd cycle now, having never started your first, you can say you are plannng ahead

but buying a bottle of test and clomid and saying you have a backup............................................ .......................................

Just because you don't agree with some of the dangers does not mean they don't exist. Some truly don't like to hear about them I guess. I posted a video last week explaining all of them. And I never claimed Clomid was my backup, not sure where you got that. I actually claimed another person said it could be used, but after researching and hearing others, I came to the conclusion I didn't agree. I didn't say I had backups, I said the opposite. I didn't actually say I was scared, you did. I said I was worried. And I'll iterate this again, if it doesn't worry you, perhaps you have not researched enough.

Who actually can honestly be deemed ready to do there first cycle, and who chooses when that point is reached. You can read all you want, but nothing beats your own experiences, and those of others.

Maturity isn't ignoring potential dangers, it's minimizing them to the full extent you can. Most take stories because they deem the potential sides to be less of a concern than the benefits, the same reason we take any medication.

Because it can shut down your liver, that is not speculation on my part. The liver stress/damage is not a side effect of steroid themselves, but is associated with the C17 alpha alkylate do compounds. They survive the first pass through the liver, but stress the organ. Injectables do the same to a lesser degree, but only when it leaves your body.

Have you ever heard of peliosis hepatitis, your liver developing blood filled cist. And some have even noted liver cancer. Some have claimed that gear has shut down the liver completely. It's something that should be monitored and a concern for all.

Maturity is not ignoring dangers like increase prothrombin time, or how long it takes for blood clots to form.

Or the lowering of HDL cholesterol, and increasing LDL cholesterol. Some can be mild on lipids, others harsh.

The high blood pressure during use is a real danger, especially for those who have had issues in the past. The conversion of estrogen builds up, water & salt levels elevate, and blood pressure goes up. You realize that is something to be genuinely concerned about. This can be compounded by added stress of intense lifting and weight gain.

There are worries about kidney cancer or other damage.

Having said that, almost all medications have risk. I understand that very well.


The Mayo Clinic, a highly respected medical source in the U.S. states the risk of steroid use is this: For Both men and women might experience:

Severe acne
Increased risk of tendinitis and tendon rupture
Liver abnormalities and tumors
Increased low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (the "bad" cholesterol)
Decreased high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol (the "good" cholesterol)
High blood pressure (hypertension)
Heart and circulatory problems
Prostate gland enlargement
Aggressive behaviors, rage or violence
Psychiatric disorders, such as depression
Drug dependence
Infections or diseases such as HIV or hepatitis if you're injecting the drugs
Inhibited growth and development, and risk of future health problems in teenagers.

And how we get them poses an increased level of risk.
"This poses additional health risks because the drugs are either made in other countries and smuggled in or made in clandestine labs in the United States. Either way, they aren't subject to government safety standards and could be impure or mislabeled."


SO, if there are risk you know about that I don't, please share them with me.

Interesting list, and your main concern is gyno??
Which incidently the Mayo Clinic does not mention.
A highly respected medical source? Maybe, where is the study they did on the subject?

Just because you put a write up like that does not mean you have a good knowledge of steroids, it just means you can "cut and paste".

Don't get me wrong I understand that you are trying to gain knowledge, but that knowledge cannot be gained in a matter of weeks, you'll still be learning in 25 years.

As for the statement on underground labs, if you're overly concerned about contaminated gear then spend a bit extra and buy pharmaceutical grade gear.

Just out of curiosity how old are you, I noticed in one of your write ups that you're a student?

How do you train, what's your diet like?

I agree with that, experience beats all. I guess I should rephrase, my concern with this post is gyno. I'm doing the blood work through the cycle to hopefully catch any others. I'm almost 30. I'm a grad student, sixth year in school. But I wouldn't of searched out gear if not for low T, but not low enough to be treated by doc. As for pharm, I am thinking of it. However, that's harder than it sounds apparently.

I'll post my training and diet when I leave the gym. I think it's really good, at least for my body. But I've hit some sticking points for sure. Tried all the training methods I can find, drops, rest pause, super, pyramids, etc. I've had problem losing fat without destroying gains.

If your concern is gyno, get a couple of packs of nolvadex and take one tablet a day for the duration of your cycle, simple as that.

Why is pharma harder?

Ok, I am home from gym.

I think mixed up what you meant by pharma. I thought you meant getting it from my doctor and going to the pharmacy. That is harder because in the states doctors really won’t write a test script unless you are below 240, which is silly. The reason I did not try for something I knew was pharmaceutical grade is that it usually cost more. Having said that, when I researched Kalpa, I heard both good things about quality, safety, and that they are controlled by GMP standards. Of course that does not exactly mean I’ll get that, but that is why I asked a lot of questions from the very beginning. I did eventually have to trust someone, and I chose to trust the guys I met hear, well because at a certain point, I had no choice. Having said that, of course until I do it myself, there will be some level of concern in the back of my mind.


I started training stupidly, but within a month I realized my error. So I took three Kinesiology classes while at university. Learned a great deal about health and fitness through those classes. I read the encyclopedia for Muscle & Strength by Dr. Jim Stoppani, and have been using workouts in there, and learning why he uses the ones he does. At first I used his Shortcut to Size, then Shred, and then I used others from bodybuilding.com. I still like those, because they are prebuilt.

However, I know add things I know that work better for me, after trial and error. I do all the basic, bench press, squats, rows, dead lifts, etc. I microcycle for endurance, hypertrophy, and strength.

In many ways I am still learning what works best for me, and I am trying to get better at my mind muscle connection on my chest workouts.

My diet—all my meals consist of these foods in various combinations, but not an exciting diet at al

l

My diet consist of carbs with a 5 to 1 ratio of fiber, to the best of my ability. I eat 1 g of protein per pound of bodyweight when not trying to gain mass, double that when I am. I eat about .5 g of fat per pound of body weight.

Food list: Meats—Lean beef, chicken, and some steak. Veg—broccoli, carrots, sweet potato, and radishes. I eat brown rice, oats, and wheat or corn tortillas. I used egg whites, and sometimes I’ll eat the whole egg, depending on what I am cooking.

I use either olive oil or coconut oil. I have oranges.

Now from time to time I’ll eat frosted Shredded Mini wheats because I like the iron levels and the fiber is great.

I never use sugar, only honey.

I have tried the cheat meal thing, but mostly stay away from it.



A multivitamin and fish oil in morning, along with two scoops of whey protein.

My pre-workout is Pre-JYM, which consist of

• 2g of creatine hydrochloride
• 2g of beta Alanine
• 1.5g go Betaine
• 1g of Taurine
• 600mg of Cysteine
• 6g of Citrulline malate
• 500mg of beat root exact
• 6g of BCAA's and 3G of which is Leucine, 1.5 g of tyrosine
• 50mcg of huperzine.
• And 300mg of Caffeine Anhydrous

My post workout supps are: whey protein, and post workout meal, heavy on protein.

And my Post workout is Post-JYM, which consist of:

• 3G of L-Glutimine
• 2g of creatine hydrochloride
• 2g of beta Alanine
• 2g L-Carnitine
• 1.5g Betaine
• 6G of BCAA's, 3.6g, 1.2g, 1.2g,

At night, I take ZMA and Casein, though I am unsure if I will continue either of them.

I can’t off hand think of anything else that I take that is not on this list.

shredded wheat
honey
oranges
corn tortillas

oh lord

just a tid bit for you
I dont take not a single one of those supplements
not one

put down the books
hire a coach

What is wrong with oranges, corn tortillas, or honey? I’ve read numerous sources say that honey is preferable to almost all other sweetness. I can see why some would not want to eat shredded wheat, although I cannot really find anything that is wrong with it.

I got the idea from this article at bodybuilding.com.

8 Best Choices In The Cereal Aisle - Bodybuilding.com


As for supplements, why dont you take any of those? I have taken them, and I have skipped them, and there is a difference from when I use them and when I do not.

Now some of the ones in the Pre-Jym are maybe not needed, but the BCAA’s and 6g of Citrulline malate is really good.

So you do not believe that whey protein or casein has any benefits, or you just dont think they work.

Not trying to be antagonizing, just trying to get your chain of thoughts here. Although it's clear you've decided to take a confrontational tone, whatever. Instead of pointing out potential flaws in my system, you decided to play coy. Whatever man, good for you. Maybe I can live up to your expectations some day.

And wasn't I told earlier to get some books, now it's a choach. Man, I hope your not afraid of heights, that pedestal is awfully high.

I actually don't have much to say on this one. I am new too. I just extended my first cycle to ten weeks. Like the other's said, I think once u make that decision to run your first cycle, nothing is gonna stop you. It didn't me. I did my homework on it a bit, and still don't know much, but continue to learn more about it all the time. The sides from Clomid I thought were rare, but u guys definitely scared me away from it for sure. Sticking to Nolva. hahaha! Got some Aromaxyl for the next cycle cuz I am giving tren a go. I was under the assumption better safe than sorry. Anyway, I just had to comment on the "Mayo Clinic." There is no credible study on humans in the U.S. about long term steroid use. It is a Schedule III drug in the US and the FDA would not permit human testing. Most studies are on cases where people did suffer from some of these ailments, but there is no valid evidence against A.A.S. when you have no idea what else contributes (i.e. no control), especially for guys like me who take 8 other supplements as well. Shoot, most the BCAA pills I take do damage to the liver too. Heart and liver? Milk thistle, omega 3 krill oil, cardio, and diet. You take a risk or you stick to vitamins and protein. I get where u are coming from though Jedi, but don't trip bro. You'll be fine. A lot of it is propaganda, especially where we are from. It's just Test. Don't get me wrong. U r putting more in your body that you probably shouldn't, but c'mon. Just be clean, be safe, and lab grade. We are all here to help each other out. You just "worry" too much. You are gonna give yourself phantom sides. lol!

Good post! I actually said the same thing somewhere, not sure if it was here or not, that without movement on the ethics, and/or someone to fund, there isn't gonna be settled science. Until there is settled science, the anecdotal evidence is enough for me to want to take as many precautions as I can. I am gonna take blood test to monitor my hormones, lipids, and any signs of danger. It's a worthwhile cost. I don't see that as an immature position at all.

Like Rich Piana preaches, you better know the dangers and you better know when the warning signs appear.

But your right, the dangers are probably not as bad as the propaganda says. When I posted the N.G. Documentary a week ago, I noted that it was biased and even allowed a source that said we use steroids intravenously. That was a tip off there.







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just do what your studies have told you and grow from there. The cycle you're gonna run is minimal in dosage and shouldn't have any major sides. That being said, whatever you decide to do, you should always prepare for the worst

Yea, that's the conclusion I came to. A couple extra bucks is worth the peace of mind.