Found this on another forum. Wanted to share with you and read your opinions and thoughts. It sounds good to do a cycle for over 20 weeks and have your HPTA still functioning. Isn't it?

Some steroids only REDUCE TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION(to varying degrees), whereas other steroids will SHUTDOWN the HPTA resulting in a complete cessation of androgen production.


*NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Turinabol, Anavar, Halotestin, Wistrol, Equipoise, Dianabol, Masteron, Primobolan)

Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Trenbolone, Nandrolone, Anadrol, Testosterone) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier recovery!


The Following steroids will NOT SHUTDOWN THE HPTA:

Turinabol, Anavar, Proviron, Halotestin, Wistrol, Equipoise, Dianabol, Masteron, Primobolan, Clostebol, and 4-ADiol.


Pre-PCT: PRE-PCT allows the HPTA to begin LH/FSH output, while still receiving additional anabolic support. This is the peroid of time where we utilize a NON-inhibitory steroid while the endogenous testosterone level begins to recover. This occurs PRIOR TO FULL PCT, so that by the time we begin full PCT the HPTA has already began recovering.

Active RECOVERY: The HPTA BEGINS to restore endogenous testosterone production once it detects the body's androgen level beginning to decline(end of cycle).

Therefore, HPTA CAN BEGIN TO RECOVER WHILE STILL IN AN ANABOLIC STATE!


The following drugs can be used during Active Recovery:

Anavar/Proviron= 40mgs/25mgs
Anavar/Masteron= 40mgs/300mgs
Primobolan/Masteron= 300mgs/300mgs
Turinabol/Proviron= 40mgs/25mgs
Turinabol/Masteron= 40mgs/300mgs
Winstrol/Masteron= 50mgs/300mgs
Dianabol/Proviron= 15mgs/25mgs
Dianabol/Masteron= 15mgs/300mgs


Examples...


In a SHORT CYCLE:
Weeks 1-4: Testosterone Propionate, 100mgs ED
Weeks 1-4: Dianabol, 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-4: NPP, 400mgs
Weeks 4-8: **PRE-PCT(ACTIVE RECOVERY)**
Weeks 8-?: **POST CYCLE THERAPY**


A Standard Cycle:
Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Testosterone Enanthate, 500mgs
Weeks 8-12: Winstrol, 100mgs ED
Weeks 12-16: **PRE-PCT(ACTIVE RECOVERY) **
Weeks 16-26: **POST CYCLE THERAPY**


DO NOT end your cycle ABRUPTLY! Don't just END your cycle cold-turkey! If you are SHUTDOWN, full restoration can take weeks and even MONTHS. Therefore, one should REMAIN ON minimally-inhibitive STEROIDS(HPTA) in an attempt to MAINTAIN the gains they made while ON CYCLE, while STILL BEGINNING TO RECOVER TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION. On top of that, one still continues to progess from the mild additional anabolic support.

NOT only does it mean that you can run a COMPLETE CYCLE with NO SHUTDOWN whatsoever(as long as the right compounds, dosages, and durations are used), it also means that if you ARE SHUTDOWN from your cycle, you do NOT HAVE TO COME RIGHT OFF CYCLE! Actually, it is BETTER TO STAY ON CYCLE WHILE YOUR ENDOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE LEVEL BEGINS TO INCREASE!


You may also run a cycle that COMPLETELY AVOIDS SHUTDOWN:

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 40mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Anavar, 50mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Masteron, 100mgs EOD

Or

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 40mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Primobolan, 500mgs
Weeks 6-14: Turinabol, 60mgs ED


And Many many more! There are tons of NON-inhibitory cycles that you can devise using my my list above for your guideline. Your days of HPTA suffering are over!


By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.


The Hypothalamus has Androgen, Estrogen, and Progesterone receptors.

Each and EVERY anabolic steroid affects these receptors DIFFERENTLY.

Some steroids affect ALL receptors, while some only affect ONE type of receptor, while others have very little effect on ANY of these receptors.

UNDERSTANDING WHICH steroids affect which receptors, and to WHAT DEGREE, will FULLY enable the steroid user to COMPLETELY and systematically AVOID HPTA SHUTDOWN!

By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

Steroids that cause an OVERSATURATION(too many receptors activated) of these various hormone receptors, WILL CAUSE SHUTDOWN.

Steroids that DO NOT CAUSE an OVERSATURATION of ANY of these various hormone receptors, will NOT cause SHUTDOWN!

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate ESTROGEN receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate PROGESTERONE receptors, to varying degrees:

Nandrolone
Trenbolone
Oxymetholone

The Following drugs activate Androgen receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone
Trenbolone
Halotestin
Oxandrolone
Stanzolol
Chlorodehydromethltestosterone
Methyltestosterone
Methenolone...
(ALL AAS*)

As we can see, the steroids that cause HPTA SHUTDOWN either OVERSATURATE ONE SPECIFIC receptor, or they activate too many TOTAL receptors(Androgen/Estrogen/Progesterone)

For instance, Trenbolone causes HPTA SHUTDOWN because it OVERSATURATES BOTH, the ANDROGEN and the PROGESTERONE receptors.

Testosterone causes SHUTDOWN because it converts to ESTROGEN and DHT, therefore, it oversaturates the Androgen/Estrogen receptors.

As we can ALSO SEE, the steroids that DO NOT cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA, do NOT oversaturate ANY of the different hormone receptors, and thus, do NOT cause SHUTDOWN.

Methenolone(Primobolan) does not possess ANY Estrogenic or Progestational ACTIVITY WHATSOEVER. It does, by virtue of being an anabolic steroid, posses a SMALL Androgenic component. Because it lacks ANY ESTROGENIC/PROGESTATIONAL component, and it lacks a strong Androgenic component, it WILL NOT CAUSE SHUTDOWN!

Oxandrolone(Anavar) posseses NO Estrogenic/Progestational component either. AND, it also lacks a strong androgenic component. Thus, Anavar will NOT cause shutdown.


By understanding WHICH steroids cause SHUTDOWN and which steroids do NOT, we can formulate a perfect EXTENDED CYCLE.

*It must also be noted, that ANY steroid in LARGE enough DOSAGES for long enough DURATIONS, can cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA.


NOT ALL ANDROGENS CAUSE SHUTDOWN*

"Shutdown", is defined by a COMPLETE inhibition of the Pituitary/Testes, resulting in a TOTAL cessation of endogenous androgen production.

SOME androgens will only SUPPRESS endogenous androgen production, resulting in a DECREASED testosterone level, but not a complete shutdown. (Tbol, Var, Wistrol, EQ, Dianabol, masteron, proviron, halo, primo)

Very Androgenic/Progestenic/Estrogenic steroids(Tren, Deca, Drol, Test) cause a COMPLETE shutdown of endogenous hormone production.

The distinction between SUPRESSION and SHUTDOWN is utterly important, as steroids that cause LESS supression of endogenous hormones will allow for greater retention of gains upon ending the cycle, and a quicker, easier PCT.
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Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS

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very intresting info thanks

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A good read and very interesting
cheers

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Now its easier to create a longer and safer cycle

I wonder if after test cycle when I start PCT I can use dbol or tbol for 2-4 weeks to keep gains I have made on cycle.It will come out that in the same time I am recovering HPTA with nolva and use dbol/tbol (or other steroid which will not shut down HPTA). According to this article it must work.

good post^

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Disclaimer: hypermuscles.com does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information we share is for entertainment and research purposes only.

"Everybody want to be a bodybuilder, but don't nobody want to lift no heavy ass weight." - Ronnie

Im thinking the same thing , you could use tbol for example for the 2 weeks gap between last test e injection and starting PCT and keep more gains .. hmm something to think about .

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Disclaimer: Hypermuscles.com does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information we share is for entertainment and research purposes only.

I ran something similar by a few well educated folks and was told not to run any type of juice during pct... I'm no expert but i got a hunch that this is something to really do your homework on. I think it could be a good thing but like i said i'm no expert

well that is what I tried, I started my pct with 10mg/day of dbol plus nolva, dbol used for 1 week then just nolva I can say I am happy